Big fee increases may be in the future...

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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby indiana hiker » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:00 am

Maybe a daily rate of $10-15 could be done for local visitors? When my parents lived in Florida, a lot of the theme parks had special rates for residents.
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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby griffin » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:22 am

They do that for a lot of parks/beaches around here, too, although I'm sure Glacier being a federal property would complicate that some.

Again, though - and maybe my perception is skewed by living in the Boston area where the cost of living generally is a lot higher - is a $25 per year bump on an annual pass really that big a jump? $75 for a year's worth of access seems like a heck of a bargain to me.
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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby glacierfever » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:35 am

There is no justification for locals to get a better deal than others for entry to a federal property. With that reasoning a person from, let's say Kansas, should pay less than someone from North Carolina just because their residence is much closer to the park. What a private business/resort/entertainment option, etc. offers to locals is entirely different than how a public property should handle this. The increase is reasonable. It is somewhat troubling when people think the people who can afford it should pay and others should get a better deal. It is a cheap entry fee to a beautiful place, for a carload of people to visit and have a good time.
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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby paul » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:47 am

griffin wrote:They do that for a lot of parks/beaches around here, too, although I'm sure Glacier being a federal property would complicate that some.

Again, though - and maybe my perception is skewed by living in the Boston area where the cost of living generally is a lot higher - is a $25 per year bump on an annual pass really that big a jump? $75 for a year's worth of access seems like a heck of a bargain to me.


I agree, if you are local to the area, that season pass at $75 is a very good deal.
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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby indiana hiker » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:33 pm

Sorry I brought up residents getting a day rate instead of buying a weekly pass. It seemed some were worried that the increase would affect locals more than visitors staying a week or so. I personally think the passes should be higher but I know everyone doesn't feel that way and that some may not be able to afford a higher rate. I was suggesting a possible compromise. I don't think the rate should be figured based on how close you live to the park (NC versus Kansas) and really don't know how that even came into play. I have no say in what the government decides but know the parks need more money and would be happy to pay a higher rate. I thought this was a forum to discuss ideas and possible solutions, but am now sorry I brought it up.
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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby llholmes1948 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:52 pm

indiana hiker wrote:Sorry I brought up residents getting a day rate instead of buying a weekly pass. It seemed some were worried that the increase would affect locals more than visitors staying a week or so. I personally think the passes should be higher but I know everyone doesn't feel that way and that some may not be able to afford a higher rate. I was suggesting a possible compromise. I don't think the rate should be figured based on how close you live to the park (NC versus Kansas) and really don't know how that even came into play. I have no say in what the government decides but know the parks need more money and would be happy to pay a higher rate. I thought this was a forum to discuss ideas and possible solutions, but am now sorry I brought it up.


I am not sorry that you brought it up. A daily rate is a good thing to consider and would be beneficial to a lot of people who visit the park one day a year or so. If I were driving cross country and wanted to visit the Park for three or four hours enroute I would regard $75 as a steep price, esp. if the Sun Road was closed. I would be tempted to spend my time and money at the Montana House of Mystery instead.

I have already heard from friends here in Maine who normally go to Acadia about once a summer that a fee of $75 would certainly discourage them. They can visit one of the state parks or conservancy lands for much less or for no fee at all.

If I am going to Glacier for a week or two, the cost of the 7 day pass or annual pass is nothing compared to the other expenses involved in making the trip but that is different if you only go there one or two days a year. I am concerned that these increases will erode general public support for the parks.

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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby paul » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:27 pm

llholmes1948 wrote:
indiana hiker wrote:Sorry I brought up residents getting a day rate instead of buying a weekly pass. It seemed some were worried that the increase would affect locals more than visitors staying a week or so. I personally think the passes should be higher but I know everyone doesn't feel that way and that some may not be able to afford a higher rate. I was suggesting a possible compromise. I don't think the rate should be figured based on how close you live to the park (NC versus Kansas) and really don't know how that even came into play. I have no say in what the government decides but know the parks need more money and would be happy to pay a higher rate. I thought this was a forum to discuss ideas and possible solutions, but am now sorry I brought it up.


I am not sorry that you brought it up. A daily rate is a good thing to consider and would be beneficial to a lot of people who visit the park one day a year or so. If I were driving cross country and wanted to visit the Park for three or four hours enroute I would regard $75 as a steep price, esp. if the Sun Road was closed. I would be tempted to spend my time and money at the Montana House of Mystery instead.

I have already heard from friends here in Maine who normally go to Acadia about once a summer that a fee of $75 would certainly discourage them. They can visit one of the state parks or conservancy lands for much less or for no fee at all.

If I am going to Glacier for a week or two, the cost of the 7 day pass or annual pass is nothing compared to the other expenses involved in making the trip but that is different if you only go there one or two days a year. I am concerned that these increases will erode general public support for the parks.

Lyman


Adding my 2 cents, I agree with Lyman there should be a cheaper rate for a day pass. I don't think your idea (Indian Hiker) was bad at all.
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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby Jay w » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:09 pm

At work, they want me to pay $36 a month to park in the parking lot...because "that's what they pay downtown." A lot of people pay it, but I park on the street. My point is that people pay over $400 a year just to park at work and seem to think that's ok. I'm too lazy to look up Canada, but I think the pass for Banff was $120 when we did the trip a few years ago. A sunset cruise (a couple hours on a boat), $75 per person plus they expect a tip. (No food and very limited drinks.) With the big increase in crowds, I kind of like the idea of fees going up. Locals will just buy a season pass.

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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby teapot57 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:18 pm

The Parks Canada Pass was free this past year to celebrate Canada’s 150th, but in 2016 I paid about $140 Canadian for a family or group yearly pass (that covers everyone in the vehicle). Similar to the America the Beautiful Pass, the Parks Canada one is good for entry into all Parks Canada Parks.

Makes the America the Beautiful Pass sounds like a bargain.
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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby joybird » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:20 am

teapot57 wrote:
Makes the America the Beautiful Pass sounds like a bargain.


Yup. It surely is.

And once you hit 62 years old, you only have to buy an $80 pass once and it is good for ALL the parks, for the rest of your life. And you get half-price camping and other amenities too. Wow. :arrow:

(Or, you can just spend $20 for an annual senior pass if you aren't the betting sort... :wink: )

So, barring some major crisis, I figure I'll be supporting the NPS to the tune of another $800 or so before I'm old enough to get my lifetime pass.

And I won't begrudge them a cent of it. :D
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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby smahurin » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:36 pm

joybird wrote:
teapot57 wrote:And once you hit 62 years old, you only have to buy an $80 pass once and it is good for ALL the parks, for the rest of your life. And you get half-price camping and other amenities too. Wow. :arrow:

(Or, you can just spend $20 for an annual senior pass if you aren't the betting sort... :wink: )

So, barring some major crisis, I figure I'll be supporting the NPS to the tune of another $800 or so before I'm old enough to get my lifetime pass.

And I won't begrudge them a cent of it. :D


Did they up the senior pass as well? Not that I qualify. It's great for seniors but I always scratched my head at a $10-lifetime pass once you hit 62.
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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby llholmes1948 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:13 pm

I was 22 my first summer at Lake McDonald and I recall that people would come into the bar and show me their senior lifetime pass which I think was called a Golden Eagle pass at that time. And I used to think "God, those people are older than dirt." Now of course I have my own senior pass :shock:

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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby Deb1741 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:14 pm

smahurin wrote:Did they up the senior pass as well? Not that I qualify. It's great for seniors but I always scratched my head at a $10-lifetime pass once you hit 62.


The senior pass for United States went up August 28th to $80 for a lifetime pass once you hit 62. A steep increase from the previous $10 rate but still a great bargain as it is an one time fee.

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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby tibber » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:26 pm

Deb1741 wrote:
smahurin wrote:Did they up the senior pass as well? Not that I qualify. It's great for seniors but I always scratched my head at a $10-lifetime pass once you hit 62.


The senior pass for United States went up August 28th to $80 for a lifetime pass once you hit 62. A steep increase from the previous $10 rate but still a great bargain as it is an one time fee.

Deb

Yep, I qualified this year. It's one of two reasons to turn 62. In August I tried to persuade the ranger at St Mary that I was going to be 62 in Oct so could she sell me one for the $80 as I wouldn't be near a National Park until the following year but she was having none of it.
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Re: Big fee increases may be in the future...

Postby mattB » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:31 pm

paul wrote:
llholmes1948 wrote:
indiana hiker wrote:Sorry I brought up residents getting a day rate instead of buying a weekly pass. It seemed some were worried that the increase would affect locals more than visitors staying a week or so. I personally think the passes should be higher but I know everyone doesn't feel that way and that some may not be able to afford a higher rate. I was suggesting a possible compromise. I don't think the rate should be figured based on how close you live to the park (NC versus Kansas) and really don't know how that even came into play. I have no say in what the government decides but know the parks need more money and would be happy to pay a higher rate. I thought this was a forum to discuss ideas and possible solutions, but am now sorry I brought it up.


I am not sorry that you brought it up. A daily rate is a good thing to consider and would be beneficial to a lot of people who visit the park one day a year or so. If I were driving cross country and wanted to visit the Park for three or four hours enroute I would regard $75 as a steep price, esp. if the Sun Road was closed. I would be tempted to spend my time and money at the Montana House of Mystery instead.

I have already heard from friends here in Maine who normally go to Acadia about once a summer that a fee of $75 would certainly discourage them. They can visit one of the state parks or conservancy lands for much less or for no fee at all.

If I am going to Glacier for a week or two, the cost of the 7 day pass or annual pass is nothing compared to the other expenses involved in making the trip but that is different if you only go there one or two days a year. I am concerned that these increases will erode general public support for the parks.

Lyman


Adding my 2 cents, I agree with Lyman there should be a cheaper rate for a day pass. I don't think your idea (Indian Hiker) was bad at all.


I agree also.. I know a lot of locals that can't afford a season pass, but do like to visit the park once or twice a year just for a day or maybe picnic, but if the daily rate goes up to $70 per car they'll never be able to do that, and I also would fear that it would increase the animosity a lot of local already feel towards the tourists, and would also definitely erode their support of a park that was right in their backyard but that they weren't able to visit...

And the idea that a reduced fee for locals is unfair, and comparing it to someone from Kansas paying less than someone from Florida because Kansas is closer to Glacier is not a valid comparison at all... The locals in any of the counties that border the parks have to deal with increase traffic on their already poorly funded roads and streets, and granted there is income from the tourists, not all locals benefit from that income..

I think we should have a box on our income tax forms where we could designate an amount to go directly to the National Park Service, it would decrease your refund or increase your tax bill, but would get a 25% match from the defense budget.. Maybe the most popular parks could get funding that way to address the over-crowding problems..
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