Latest 2020 Season Opening News

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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by Selkie »

The "Special Olympics Montana Virtual Edition" video that follows has some sweet moments, as when a pup chases after a golf ball.
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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by zozeppelin »

Map update (same closure but better overlay with trails):
https://www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/ ... d-7-16.pdf


Note:

"Non-essential travel on the
Blackfeet Indian Reservation has
been prohibited.
Most of the east side of the park,
shown in grey, is anticipated to
remain closed in 2020.
The Going-to-the-Sun Road is
open to Rising Sun.
The Many Glacier and Two
Medicine areas are not anticipated
to open in 2020. "
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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by Fairbanks142 »

We drove from Choteau up through Browning on 89 yesterday, then over Hwy 2 and hiked up to Firebrand Pass. Not many cars or people over there....then out through West Glacier, and tons of traffic and people on the west side. Two different worlds!
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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by zozeppelin »

risingwolf wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:28 pm Stick a fork in it, it’s done.
Today is July 8.
Peak season ends on a late Labor Day Sept 7, 61 days away. Every day that tics of the calendar makes it that much easier to wait until next year. There is still talk of closing it down again if need be. GTTSR is not open past Avalanche. A pathetic 11 BC sites are open, and trails still need to be cleared. Everything east of the divide is closed. I had hoped when St Mary campground opened trails east of the divide would open but the goal line for St Mary campground keeps being moved and I sincerely doubt it opens. The list goes on. IMO I think the park embraced the Blackfeet closure. We can armchair it all day and I wanted to believe in this fairytale but let’s be realistic
Reluctantly starting to agree with you:
(from the status page update today):
"Trails on the west side of the park are open including the Highline Trail, Loop Trail, Sperry Chalet Trail, and the Gunsight Lake trail.

Trails in the Many Glacier and Two Medicine Valleys are not open this summer. Those trails include the popular Grinnell Glacier, Iceberg Lake, Cracker Lake, Cobalt Lake, Dawson/Pitamaken Pass, and Scenic Point trails."

Don't blame them ... but wilderness permits would have been a nice compromise to access areas within the national park that are 'closed'.
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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by PeteE »

zozeppelin wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:07 am Don't blame them ... but wilderness permits would have been a nice compromise to access areas within the national park that are 'closed'.
"Wilderness" permits? I hope you don't mean "non designated" permits.
However, I feel the same way about permits in BC campgrounds in the closed areas.

I have to VEHEMENTLY disagree with that idea.
I base my objection based on the behavior of the people on the dayhiking trails and backcountry in the past couple years, and especially this year.
You need to remember that you are in a minority of the overall population of visitors to GNP in that you have respect for the park.
Turning loose the morons and a-holes I've seen this year to camp in the unspoiled backcountry would be a huge mistake.
There would be NO way to ensure that campers would follow the rules and guidelines that apply to BC camping.
God only knows what sort of damage they would inflict on the backcountry.
They don't have the staff to manage what's open now, especially given the behavior I've seen thus far this year.

pete :wink:

PS
Given the behavior of the people I saw on last weeks hike to the Dragon Tail, I wouldn't be surprised if they extended the trail closure to Hidden Lake Overlook and the lake itself for the rest of the season.("Bear Frequenting" would be a convenient excuse)
People were walking all over the meadow area, on the meadows, the moraines, wherever they wanted...and not a ranger in sight.
Sad, but true.
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by calicotraveler »

I am sorry to hear about the way people are acting in the Park. But not surprised. As more people visit the Park every year, their activities (stomping wildflowers, not staying where they should, and parking where ever they want, to name a few) seem to get worse. And with a large portion of GNP not open this year it must be a nightmare. :(
The mountains are calling and I must go.
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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by teapot57 »

To add to what Pete said, Waterton currently has 2 backcountry campgrounds closures because a black bear received a food reward from campers. Two other areas in Waterton also have warnings because of food conditioned bears approaching people.
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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by zozeppelin »

PeteE wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:51 pm "Wilderness" permits? I hope you don't mean "non designated" permits.
However, I feel the same way about permits in BC campgrounds in the closed areas.
Yep - those ones :) Not the 'I'm going to camp on Lake McDonnald wherever I want' ones (like this story: https://flatheadbeacon.com/2020/07/29/under-pressure/). Rather the 'sure you can camp at Two Medicine, if you hike in, at your own risk, abide by leave no trace, and there will be no amenities like toilet, bear box or water sources' kind.
PeteE wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:51 pm Turning loose the morons and a-holes I've seen this year to camp in the unspoiled backcountry would be a huge mistake.
I am of the assumption that there is a relationship between the level of a-hole and distance they are willing/able to hike, so the areas being discussed which are deep into the park, are safe havens.

Beyond all of that, not trying to get political, but looking ahead to next year .... does the situation change if the virus is still kicking around in sizable numbers? Sure maybe they can get the shuttles working 'safely', but what if the Blackfeet continue their ordinances?
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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by PeteE »

zozeppelin wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:56 pm
PeteE wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:51 pm "Wilderness" permits? I hope you don't mean "non designated" permits.
However, I feel the same way about permits in BC campgrounds in the closed areas.
Yep - those ones :) Not the 'I'm going to camp on Lake McDonnald wherever I want' ones (like this story: https://flatheadbeacon.com/2020/07/29/under-pressure/). Rather the 'sure you can camp at Two Medicine, if you hike in, at your own risk, abide by leave no trace, and there will be no amenities like toilet, bear box or water sources' kind.

Then dream on. Do you know how difficult it is to get a "non designated" permit in GNP??????
To the best of my knowledge, very few of those are ever given out, and then only to people who have a very good reason. And the BC Office doesn't allow the people granted one to camp just anywhere. NO WAY would they ever just open up the backcountry like you're suggesting. The BC Rangers know that applicants would lie their ass off regarding knowing what's required, the risks involved, etc. to camp in a "non-designated" area. That'll never happen. And it shouldn't happen-ever imo 8).

PeteE wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:51 pm Turning loose the morons and a-holes I've seen this year to camp in the unspoiled backcountry would be a huge mistake.
I am of the assumption that there is a relationship between the level of a-hole and distance they are willing/able to hike, so the areas being discussed which are deep into the park, are safe havens.
You are wrong. The remote reaches of the park are not safe from the a-holes. I think you're being a little naive if you think that there aren't people willing to hike into virtually anyplace in the park if allowed. There are lots of "backcountry jerks" out there who'd jump at the chance to go camping in park if they believed(rightly or wrongly) that they would have it to themselves.

Beyond all of that, not trying to get political, but looking ahead to next year .... does the situation change if the virus is still kicking around in sizable numbers? Sure maybe they can get the shuttles working 'safely', but what if the Blackfeet continue their ordinances?
I don't know what the changes will be if any, if the virus is still a problem.
NO COMMENT on the Blackfeet!!!!!!!!
The culture has changed in this country my friend--and NOT for the better. There are way too many selfish a-holes out there who don't believe that rules, regulations, or law apply to ***THEM***
And so things you and I might have been able to do in the past are impossible now.
Welcome to the "New Normal" that so many think is so great.
Frankly, I think this New Normal is BS!


PS
The Beacon article MAKES MY POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

George Carlin
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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by zozeppelin »

Haha Pete - fair enough and guilty as charged.

Looking forward to more pictures.
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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by PeteE »

zozeppelin wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:14 pm Haha Pete - fair enough and guilty as charged.

Looking forward to more pictures.
It's Ok my friend. :mrgreen:
I suppose I'm a cynic because I've lived here for 18 years.
During that time I've watched how visitor behavior has gone downhill--at least from my perspective.
The3 sad part is I'm afraid these visitor issues are going to get worse.
Why? There is either NO, or insufficient punishment for breaches of the law and regulations.
People these days are quite willing to pay a $250 fine for parking illegally in the Logan Pass parking lot.
Or $500 for landing a helicopter in the Bob Marshall Wilderness.
Those dollar amounts are "chump change" for many of the violators.
Fines need to be raised to a level that is actually PAINFUL for the "perps" or this crap will continue unabated.

And yeah, I leaving at 4AM. Hope to beat the heat and get some good pics somewhere :)
Thanks for enduring my ranting! 8)

pete :wink:
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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by ND »

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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by Fairbanks142 »

ND wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:48 pm https://www.facebook.com/GrandTetonNPS/ ... 5755513036

Check this out.
And here's the related article on the Teton NPS site:
https://www.nps.gov/grte/learn/news/gro ... -field.htm
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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by PeteE »

Fairbanks142 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:58 am And here's the related article on the Teton NPS site:
https://www.nps.gov/grte/learn/news/gro ... -field.htm
From the above article:
Operating a motor vehicle off roadways is a violation and subject to a fine up to $5,000 and/or up to six months imprisonment. Additionally, the System Unit Resource Protection Act provides that any person or instrumentality that destroys, causes the loss of or injures, of any National Park Service resource is liable for response costs and damages.
So how many of you believe that IF CAUGHT, any of this crowd damaging the hay field will get "a fine up to $5,000 and/or up to six months imprisonment."
I'll lay odds that number will be ZERO.
Any that do get caught and prosecuted will WHINE to one of our pathetic Federal judges and get off with a hand slap(warning and probation) at most.
Just sayin' 8)

pete :wink:
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

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Re: Latest 2020 Season Opening News

Post by indiana hiker »

Agree Pete. If authorities would actually start using the fines and jail time, it MIGHT have an impact on others. The fine for the helicopter in the Bob Marshall area was a joke to those people. I wish the person taking the Teton video had included more license plates, but it probably wouldn't have mattered. Some of the people seemed to be laughing during the video. This type of behavior makes visits to the parks less enjoyable, at least for me. I can't just stand by and watch but you know even if you approach the person or report it, most times nothing becomes of it.
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