2021 Season Opening News

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Pizza Bob
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by Pizza Bob »

I’m gonna make a fortune this summer! On days that I have an entry ticket, I can shuttle 6 people in to the park from West Glacier and drop them off at Logan Pass, and then pick them up and shuttle them back a few hours later.

I think my one way rate should be $30/person one way, so $180 cash for the hour drive. Sound crazy? Suppose you are a family with one week of vacation for the summer, and discover on arrival at the park you cannot get in. How much would you pay to at the last minute to recover your vacation?

I can certainly “grease a few palms” of seasonal workers at RV parks, hotels, and restaurants to put in a few good words about a great “grey market shuttle service” that can get them into the park.

Hey Pete, any interest in making some easy money? I’m sure there will be a healthy demand of riders
You can always earn more money, but you can't earn more time
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by zozeppelin »

That would be very smart.

I’d add, skip the ticket lottery and just make a backcountry reservation every 7 days at Lake McDonald or whatever lightly used site.

East side shuttle isn’t operating this year. Unsure of red bus status.
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by zozeppelin »

I agree Jay. People are going to work within (around) the rules and it’s going to blow up NPS faces. Thinking specifically the early arrival loophole and the auto-passes for those with campground reservations.

I get they are trying to be proactive, but they’ve backed themselves into a corner too early. Would really have preferred wait and see.
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by Selkie »

Pizza Bob,
You probably cannot do that as a commercial service, but you may accept gifts.
Story with several morals here:
"Man Charged with Organizing Illegal 153-Person Hike in Grand Canyon"
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1266521

Authorities are on him for, among other things, soliciting business without a permit.
NPS is touchy about such things.
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by PeteE »

Pizza Bob wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 8:35 am Hey Pete, any interest in making some easy money? I’m sure there will be a healthy demand of riders
This is true!
And for the right price, all prices being negotiable, some would probably stoop so low as to ride in my "POS" 2006 Dodge Dakota QuadCab 8)
I'll get rid of my tool bag and other miscellaneous work related stuff, emergency breakdown gear, etc.
Then I'm thinkin' I can get 7 people in Jaybird, comfortably, well sorta, kinda, for 3 of them anyway.
The A/C doesn't work which won't matter in the morning. And in the afternoon if it's hot it still won't matter. Everyone will stink from hiking. :D
So open the windows for fresh air.
I've got some old Thermorest mattresses for the 4 riding in the bed 8)
We'll be through the gate before 0500. Earlier if your party has a trailhead on the East side.
At the end of your day I'll come get you at the prearranged location(s)
I'll wait on stragglers as long as you want...but the "meter" will be running.

A few miscellaneous thoughts:
I'll only going to do one party per day.
I'm the only "driver" in the vehicle...know what I mean?
I've driven the GTTS road a lot in all sorts of conditions. I enjoy driving the GTTS road, sometimes a little fast Soooooo......
Whoever rides up front with me can't be some candy-ass who sucks in their breath every time I drive through a turn where the road is curvy.
Driving up the winding, Alpine section of the GTTS road in the dark might make some people get car sick and or have anxiety attacks.
So say something, preferably before we get going.
Do not puke in Jaybird!
I have bear spray to rent. If it doesn't work sue me....and good luck with that 8)
Cater breakfast?. Pick up some crappy gas station junk food and their equally awful coffee. j/k

Uuummmmmm..Everything above is bullsh1t of course. It would be illegal provide any such service. :wink:

Yeah, like Jay and others, I can see some real cluster****s that will get generated from this ticket procedure.
And now this really stupid shuttle policy.
I'd bet money that this shuttle policy came from rec.gov It's stupid and unworkable for the very people it was designed to help.
You see they'll get a fee for every ticket they process.

So all the more reason to hitchhike for me.
I may still try doing the HockeyRef. Park at Logan Pass. Hitchhike from Swiftcurrent Inn back to Logan Pass.
I got a ride one time with some California firefighters all the way from the Inn to Logan Pass.
It can be done. 8)

Waiting for the GTTS road to open to Avalanche

pete :wink:

Any bets on the park service making "hitchhiking" illegal in the park?

Jaybird A good "Montana" truck with cracked windshield, rusted out body work from front to back, annoying wind noise from bad door gaskets, cracked tail light cover, etc. etc. The brakes work good though! 8)
(For the curious. Taken March 14th 2021 on North Fork Rd. 8 miles to the Canadian border. 48 miles to Columbia Falls.)
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by Jay w »

As for an alternative, the only thing I can think of is raising prices. If someone has decided that’s off the board, it’s really hard to control the crowds without simply closing the gates and bussing everyone, or counting cars.

I’ll have to check out riding the bike with a pack. :D

Jay
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by paul »

I think the big thing this will do is push the crowds to other places in the park. I'm thinking Two Medicine, The North Fork and Many Glacier will see a ton more people.
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by cdsmith379 »

According to the website in addition to needing to reserve a shuttle(can't wait to see how THAT works out, for instance is it by time and what if you miss your time, are you stranded, etc.) it appears the shuttle will not be running after labor day, I will be hitching or considering hiking the Snyder Ridge trail from the intersection of Gunsight Pass trail instead of road walking to Apgar. Anyone hiked this trail(Snyder Ridge)?
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by zozeppelin »

Labor day makes sense from history as they lose many of their drivers when school starts - I found that out the hard way. That said, they should be better than that given the limited season.

I was onboard with GTTSR tickets, but the shuttle is one step to far - needs a similar addendum for people with reservations at campsites/hotels should have access. That or they should allow private shuttle services/taxis for drop-off/pickup only - wait in overflow lot somewhere at the gates or in the closed campgrounds. Show some flexibility and compromise NPS!

I get this was already in the works pre-covid, and now that is just accelerating the constraints, but I think they need to take a step back and segment their guests. In my opinion, the majority either just want to drive GTTSR and/or stop at Avalanche/Logan Pass and do an easy hike. Those are perfect examples of segments that are mutually exclusive and can be ticketed accordingly (GTTSR pass, no stops; shuttle pass) with zero impact on parking. Sell parking passes separately (and those include road access implicitly). Quantity and quality of shuttles is clearly the answer to the parking pinch point. I wouldn't want to take away the ability to drive GTTSR, but a good (frequent) shuttle service alleviates a lot of the issues. Next question of course is how do they pay for that, and I say charge away.

Lastly, this should all be broadcasted away with pop-ups on the NPS site and social media making people aware. 1 Tweet and 1 Facebook post. The ticked entry link on the website doesn't work and the shuttle changes are buried.
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by PeteE »

If the current shuttle "plan" remains unchanged, I can see plenty of unhappy people come July.

I see the bad moon a-rising
I see trouble on the way
I see earthquakes and lightnin'
I see bad times today

Bad Moon Rising--CCR

pete :wink:
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by calicotraveler »

For sure! Sounds like chaos.... :evil:
The mountains are calling and I must go.
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by Sue Z »

PeteE wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:19 am If the current shuttle "plan" remains unchanged, I can see plenty of unhappy people come July.

I see the bad moon a-rising
I see trouble on the way
I see earthquakes and lightnin'
I see bad times today

Bad Moon Rising--CCR

pete :wink:
Agree. It's crazy.
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by PeteE »

Things are opening up.
The GTTS road opened to Avalanche yesterday.

pete :wink:


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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by zozeppelin »

Looks like good progress from afar:

GTTSR plowing done apart from big drift - can make it up to Logan Pass from the west side (hiker/biker).

Trail clearing is beating clearance and bridge projections by a week or two in most places, 623 and 650 killing it as usual. 551 (new?) making an appearance as well.
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Re: 2021 Season Opening News

Post by zozeppelin »

Still looks like they're working on GttSR, although plowing status hasn't been updated for 9 days (I assume they're done plowing and working on barriers and repairs).

Here is an article on visitation this year. The numbers (all referenced to 2019):
  • 17% more visitors year to date
  • 2% more visitors in May
  • 27% more visitors from Memorial Day weekend to present
  • Ticketed entry saved closing the gate 7 times
  • 23% arrived gate without ticket
I think some of the numbers are 'shock and awe' type. Here is another article, highlights:
  • Visitation in year to date from 2016-2021: 292529, 263938, 269347, 251704, 56048, 294742; so matching 2016 levels with 2019 being a down year
  • I think Pete can vouch for this:
    Park officials caution that people who arrive at 5 p.m. should expect heavy traffic and wait times.
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