BackCountry Permits 2022

Are you a seasoned hiker, or just starting out? Let us know your questions or experience with the backcountry permit process.

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zozeppelin
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by zozeppelin »

I’m sure you spotted it, but there are some suspicious parts. It looks like sites that should be in winter status are not, and there are a lot of over bookings.

Enjoy your trip!
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by zozeppelin »

Persistence paid off- I was able to land an extended northern circle in the end half of September!

It looks like another partial (no FIF?) opener mid August

8/10: ELF
8/11: COS
8/12: STO
8/13: ?
8/14: GRN (2)
8/15: MAN (2)
8/16: ELH (2)
8/17: FIF
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by paul »

Congrats on the permit. Lets hope for good weather in September.
We are in the mountains and the mountains are in us. - John Muir
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by zozeppelin »

Thanks Paul, hopefully as the Ranger said ‘September is the new August’.

Another northern loop just popped up:

09-09-22 GLF
09-10-22 STO
09-11-22 FIF
09-12-22 GRN
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by zozeppelin »

And another:
08-23-22 ELH
08-24-22 MOL
08-25-22 KOO
08-26-22 FIF
08-27-22 GRN
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by paul »

I've been watching the advanced reservations page and I'm beginning to see a pattern. It looks like each week there are new openings for advanced permits for that week. I think what's happening is they are getting a lot of no shows so as soon as someone doesn't show up to get their permit, the sites on that permit are added back into the pool.

If you look at this week for camps in the Belly river and Mokawannis drainage, there are quite a few camps available. Last week they weren't available.

I think this is no shows rather than cancellations for most part because it's happening just before camps become available. If people were cancelling they would probably do that well in advance.
We are in the mountains and the mountains are in us. - John Muir
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by zozeppelin »

Hi Paul - agree.

I've been tracking 'no-shows' daily (taking a snapshot at 4:30 MST and at 6 MST, then comparing difference for increase).

Here is today's numbers:

tonight: 15
+1: 8
+2: 6
+3: 4
+4: 1
+5: 1

They are trending upwards (presumably with the increase in open camps after 8/1, and will see more after 8/15). These are campgrounds total, there are several with multiple campsites increasing in availability.

Letter of the law, I don't think you can claim a no-show, as there is no overlap between 'last permit issued' and 'permits not picked up'. I hope this is not the case in reality, and that they'd allow for no shows to be claimed. The challenge is of course you can't just start a hike to ELF at 5 PM, or really anywhere for that matter. I was looking at Grand Tetons, and their walkin policy is day before (can't do same-day), which would eliminate this problem. Realistically I think a noon cutoff for picking up a permit day of is fair to both sides.

As an example, here are the before and after numbers available for tonight.

08-02-22 AKO 1 3
08-02-22 CRA 1 2
08-02-22 FIF 0 1
08-02-22 ELF 0 2
08-02-22 REF 0 1
08-02-22 GUN 0 3
08-02-22 REH 0 3
08-02-22 ISA 1 2
08-02-22 LIN 1 2
08-02-22 LQU 1 3
08-02-22 OLL 1 2
08-02-22 POI 0 2
08-02-22 QUA 0 1
08-02-22 SLI 1 3
08-02-22 UPK 0 2
08-03-22 ATL 0 1
08-03-22 BOU 2 3
08-03-22 BRO 0 1
08-03-22 REH 0 2
08-03-22 LQU 1 2
08-03-22 POI 0 2
08-03-22 QUA 0 2
08-03-22 STO 0 1
08-04-22 AKO 0 1
08-04-22 ATL 1 2
08-04-22 BRO 0 1
08-04-22 ELF 0 1
08-04-22 KOO 0 1
08-04-22 QUA 1 2
08-05-22 REH 1 2
08-05-22 LQU 1 2
08-05-22 MAN 0 1
08-05-22 MOL 0 1
08-06-22 COS 1 2
08-07-22 MAN 2 3
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by paul »

I know you probably can't claim a no-show site for the first night. But let's say a no-show has a 3 night permit. The remaining 2 nights should be available for walkins,etc. If the person hasn't show up by 4pm of the first day, they relinquish their right to the rest of the nights for the trip.

This is actually tough to see because people aren't doing the considerate thing and cancelling their permits well in advance so that someone else can use the camp. The system for reservations rewards people putting in multiple applications when they will only use one. There is no penalty for over reserving trips and not cancelling them in advance.
We are in the mountains and the mountains are in us. - John Muir
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by zozeppelin »

Looks like trail status links aren’t working again and were scrubbed from the webpage. The interactive map is getting better with context information, but having to click on every trail is dumb - fix the webpage. One other issue is the coloring: red = closed and red = warning. For instance the Ptarmigan tunnel trail is closed from the split but the trail from Swiftcurrent Inn the split is ‘posted’ - both red.

Finally the Recreational access display (RAD) dashboard created a couple years ago isn’t being updated, and neither is the overall general closure page. These are both highly useful, especially the RAD which showed front country campground full times.

Hate to be a constant whiner on these items, but they’re stripping away useful functionally for no apparent good reason (best I can suspect is the trying to push people towards the ‘maps’ but the people developing the ‘maps’ don’t have any pertinent experience with the park, thus the gaps).
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by HoustonHiker »

Maybe the Quartz fire is why smoke was up yesterday. I also heard the Weasel (sp?) fire spread to Canada recently.

I just finished my 12 night backpack yesterday. It was hot but a great trip. Trail closures like the Ptarmigan trail are potentially a big problem for those backpacking
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by zozeppelin »

Trip Report! Trip Report!

Agree the tunnel is a common and big concern. Even more so many glacier campsite going hard sided only. At least if the tunnel is closed you can via Poai lake.

This year I’m going though the tunnel to camp at Many after the front country and hotels are done for the season, so that will be new/nice and hopefully low risk.

But seriously though, what if you arrive MG in the evening in the middle of a long itinerary to find out it’s hard sided only? Next nearest campsite is pretty far away (Poai or Granite or Cracker) assuming they’re even open - I assume they let you stay?
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by paul »

HoustonHiker wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:14 am Maybe the Quartz fire is why smoke was up yesterday. I also heard the Weasel (sp?) fire spread to Canada recently.

I just finished my 12 night backpack yesterday. It was hot but a great trip. Trail closures like the Ptarmigan trail are potentially a big problem for those backpacking
12 Nights, that sounds Epic! Look forward to a trip report.
We are in the mountains and the mountains are in us. - John Muir
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Re: BackCountry Permits 2022

Post by HoustonHiker »

I will have to work on a trip report. Unfortunately, the demands of normal life resume all too quickly after a nice disconnect like this.
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