2019 Backcountry Permits

Are you a seasoned hiker, or just starting out? Let us know your questions or experience with the backcountry permit process.

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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by sbosecker »

Geode wrote:I'm still waiting on all 4 of my permit applications. Should I contact Glacier somehow to ask what's going on?
Geode,

As Fairbanks142 noted... it's probably too early to poke them.

I've been using the Advanced Reservation System for over 15 years. In that time I think there was only one time they actually "lost" one of my applications. It is my recollection that there will be an announcement from the Backcountry Permit folks when they have completed processing all of the March 15th applications.

Another clue would be when the link to the Available Backcounry Reservation Map goes live again.

https://www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/ ... ations.htm

The link is located about 3/4 of the way down the above page under the heading: "Submitting An Application". The link is labled "Advance Reservation Availabilty" and currently has a line of text in parenthesis under it that indicates: (This link will be reactivated in mid-May 2019 once all of the advanced applications have been processed.)

Good luck!

Scott
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by PeteE »

The link is located about 3/4 of the way down the above page under the heading: "Submitting An Application". The link is labled "Advance Reservation Availabilty" and currently has a line of text in parenthesis under it that indicates: (This link will be reactivated in mid-May 2019 once all of the advanced applications have been processed.)
So what am I seeing when I go here?:

https://home.nps.gov/applications/glac/ ... bcmap.html
Click on a campsite like BOU in this example:
https://home.nps.gov/applications/glac/ ... cfm?cg=BOU

BOU - BOULDER Backcountry Campground
Reserved Campsite Availability as of April 13 at 8:52AM
2 campsites are reservable through the Backcountry Reservation System

pete :wink:
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by teapot57 »

I would really like to know the number of applications submitted this year and how that number compares to the last few years of first come, first serve. Even though Glacier’s growing popularity alone would result in more applications beIng filed year after year, I do think the lottery (which I am in favor of) adds to the number of applications being submitted. With the lottery, why not try to increase your chances by having each group member try for a desired route? So then you have one group potentially getting more than one reservation at the initial draw and another group missing out because of it. And further, I do wish there was more of an incentive for people to cancel their reservations if they won’t be used, so that others could pick up those cancellations.
I know this takes the fun out of it for some, but now that the application is an online form, this should all be automated. The availability is in a database, the application parameters are in a database and using similar tables to Matt's planner, it could easily parse the applications for valid combinations and issue permits, presumably all in one day. I'm sure the rangers have better things to do as well.

Taking this one step further, the system could consider all applications, trying to find a solution to fulfill as many as possible, by considering the flexibility provided in the application. This would be a similar exercise to building sports teams' schedules.

Taking it one additional step further, after the initial applications are completed, the site should open up to a 'add to cart' approach with checkout - similar to other treks (mont blanc, patagonia, nz great walks, etc).
I like the idea of an automated online system.
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by teapot57 »

Pete, I think Scott’s point is that the Park took the direct link off the page he referenced in his post. There are other ways to get there, such as your direct link.
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by zozeppelin »

teapot57 wrote:I do think the lottery (which I am in favor of) adds to the number of applications being submitted. With the lottery, why not try to increase your chances by having each group member try for a desired route? So then you have one group potentially getting more than one reservation at the initial draw and another group missing out because of it. And further, I do wish there was more of an incentive for people to cancel their reservations if they won’t be used, so that others could pick up those cancellations.
Can't agree more and I was thinking the same. I'll be the first to say we are all lucky to be able to enjoy Glacier BC and the new system is a huge improvement over fax/mail and online first come first serve of the past.

That said, pure speculation (I apologize if this is not the case), but in this thread alone we have:
one person submit 4 applications who isn't planning on taking 4 trips
another whose party is backing out, questioning solo hiking - odds of no show vs cancel?
rangers created a permit for an 'anywhere' application to include back to back nights at MOL (one of the best sites with only 1 advanced reservation site per night)

That's all .... kindof shitty. I'm sure there are plenty more examples. The potential 8 week limbo (plus more if your permit got rejected and you can't formally view availability / submit new applications) makes it hard schedule vacation and transportation. It would be nice to be able to 'pick' the specific sites and dates real time, as it is hard to concisely capture what you want in the comments, and who knows how well they are taken into consideration.

Increasing the application cost isn't fair because it punishes everyone (I just completed the Milford and NZ doubled the cost to help availability). No-shows are nice if you have a permit, but suck if you are trying to get one. The only way I see that working is through a deposit, something extraordinarily high, to get a confirmed itinerary in advance, and then it is returned once you pickup the permit, that would curb a lot of the nonsense.

All that said, I'd take as-is in a heartbeat. I, like many others, am eagerly awaiting my application to be processed and tracking availability (only 1 start date left of my 4 explicit itineraries).
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by sbosecker »

teapot57 wrote:Pete, I think Scott’s point is that the Park took the direct link off the page he referenced in his post. There are other ways to get there, such as your direct link.
The person I was responding to seemed concerned that their application may have been lost. I was trying to indicate there was no need to be concerned about that until all the March 15 applications were processed. My point was that when the Glacier NPS Website Link to the Backcountry Availability Map went live again, the March 15th applications were probably all processed. At that time they could be concerned if they hadn't heard from the Backcountry Permit Rangers.

Best regards,

Scott
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by Syrio »

Just received mine and it could’ve been better:

GAB-MOJ-GLF

In and out at CME. Will definitely try to change it once they processed everything, hopefully some sites slip through. Or just do a walk in.
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by PeteE »

sbosecker wrote:
teapot57 wrote:Pete, I think Scott’s point is that the Park took the direct link off the page he referenced in his post. There are other ways to get there, such as your direct link.
My point was that when the Glacier NPS Website Link to the Backcountry Availability Map went live again, the March 15th applications were probably all processed. At that time they could be concerned if they hadn't heard from the Backcountry Permit Rangers.

Best regards,

Scott
I got my application in on March 15th.
So should I be concerned and call them since the site is "live" now? Or am I just old and confused? 8)
Looks like given the window I gave them, 8-10 through 9-10, that there are multiple possibilities still available for UPK-->BOU-->BOU--KIN ??

I drove by the BC office this morning and lots of vehicles parked there and lights on...So I figure they are working in there.

pete :wink:
Last edited by PeteE on Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by PeteE »

Belay my last as we used to say in Uncle's Navy. :D

Ya think maybe they monitor this chat? 8)

YEEEHAWWWW!
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

PERMIT# ******
CAMPERS; 1
SITES; 1
TRIP LEADER; The Geezer 8)
ENTER - KINTLA LAKE (TRAILHEAD)

8-25-2019 - UPK - UPPER KINTLA LK
Fires; YES
Segment; Length 11.60
Elevation; Up 400 | Down 0

8-26-2019 - BOU - BOULDER
Fires; NO
Segment; Length 5.60
Elevation; Up 2880 | Down 0

8-27-2019 - BOU - BOULDER
Fires; NO
Segment; Length 0.00
Elevation; Up 0 | Down 0

8-28-2019 - KIN - KINTLA HEAD
Fires; YES
Segment; Length 10.90
Elevation; Up 0 | Down 3280

EXIT - KINTLA LAKE (TRAILHEAD)
Segment; Length 6.30
Elevation; Up 0 | Down 0


TOTALS;
Trip length 34.40 miles
Elevation up 3,280 feet
Elevation down 3,280 feet
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

George Carlin
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by Sue Z »

PeteE wrote:Belay my last as we used to say in Uncle's Navy. :D

Ya think maybe they monitor this chat? 8)

YEEEHAWWWW!
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

PERMIT# ******
CAMPERS; 1
SITES; 1
TRIP LEADER; The Geezer 8)
ENTER - KINTLA LAKE (TRAILHEAD)

8-25-2019 - UPK - UPPER KINTLA LK
Fires; YES
Segment; Length 11.60
Elevation; Up 400 | Down 0

8-26-2019 - BOU - BOULDER
Fires; NO
Segment; Length 5.60
Elevation; Up 2880 | Down 0

8-27-2019 - BOU - BOULDER
Fires; NO
Segment; Length 0.00
Elevation; Up 0 | Down 0

8-28-2019 - KIN - KINTLA HEAD
Fires; YES
Segment; Length 10.90
Elevation; Up 0 | Down 3280

EXIT - KINTLA LAKE (TRAILHEAD)
Segment; Length 6.30
Elevation; Up 0 | Down 0


TOTALS;
Trip length 34.40 miles
Elevation up 3,280 feet
Elevation down 3,280 feet
Two nights at Boulder? BRILLIANT!
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by PeteE »

Hi Sue!

UPK-BOU-BOU-KIN
Exactly what I asked for. :D
Two nights at BOU gives me time to do Boulder Peak and to hike down to HOL to look around and take pics.
Photography is the primary goal of this trip.
A night at HOL would have been nice but two nights at BOU also means not having to break and set up camp.
I can save the time and energy for day hiking and doing photography.
*****************************************************************************************
Now I'm waiting on my other application in the Belly River.

Belly River trip
Date Window--June 15-July 15
Enter CME

Night 1 COS (GAB will work just as well)
Night 2 MOJ (Where I sleep doesn't matter. Just need a "base camp" and prefer to not move around every day)
Night 3 MOJ (for day hikes to Margaret Lake and Sue Lake overlook areas for photos)
Night 4 MOJ
Night 5 GAB

Choice 2 on this permit is
Enter Cut Bank
Night 1, 2,3 at Atlantic Creek Day hikes up to Divide Pass and Divide Mt and maybe Medicine Grizzly Lake for photos
Out Cut Bank

pete :wink:
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

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And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by NDjason »

PeteE wrote: UPK-BOU-BOU-KIN
Exactly what I asked for. :D
Two nights at BOU gives me time to do Boulder Peak and to hike down to HOL to look around and take pics.
Photography is the primary goal of this trip.
A night at HOL would have been nice but two nights at BOU also means not having to break and set up camp.
I can save the time and energy for day hiking and doing photography.:


Congrats, Pete! Looks like an awesome trip!
~ jason
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by Fairbanks142 »

teapot57 wrote:I would really like to know the number of applications submitted this year and how that number compares to the last few years of first come, first serve. Even though Glacier’s growing popularity alone would result in more applications beIng filed year after year, I do think the lottery (which I am in favor of) adds to the number of applications being submitted. With the lottery, why not try to increase your chances by having each group member try for a desired route?
I've wondered the same, although even with the previous first-come-first-served online process, people were submitting multiple applications. A couple months ago my doctor told me about the trip they did last year with a group of 8, and even with the first-come-first-served system they had everyone in their group submit applications to increase their chances that one of them would sneak in a few seconds faster and get a better chance at the itinerary they wanted.
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by Sue Z »

PeteE wrote:Hi Sue!

UPK-BOU-BOU-KIN
Exactly what I asked for. :D
Two nights at BOU gives me time to do Boulder Peak and to hike down to HOL to look around and take pics.

pete :wink:
BOU is my favorite BC campground (so far). The peak is glorious. Even the privy view is divine. I wish I'd had time for a couple of other side hikes in that bizarre moonscape.
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Re: 2019 Backcountry Permits

Post by zozeppelin »

Congrats Pete and thanks for sharing the itineraries and more importantly the side trips! Gives some good ideas.
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