BackCountry Permits 2022

[sbosecker]

Scott,
You might try calling them up. They probably made a mistake when they rejected your permit.

-Paul

Paul,

I haven't had a response to my permit application yet... although it's beginning to sound like I could call them and do some preemptive bellyaching. HA!

In the past I would watch the sites disappear on the web page and have some idea of what the odds of me getting a permit were. Prior to last year, there were a couple of times I got a "permit criteria unavailable" and a quick check of the Advance Availability Webpage would show that they had made a mistake. Then I made a phone call and got the permit.

Last year, after my first attempt failed, I got an advance permit only because of being able to look at the Advance Availability Webpage. I built something from what I could see was available and submitted a new reservation request.

It is a GREAT disappointment to me to not be able to see the Advance Availability Webpage. Is there anyone with "an inside person" that could be asked as to what the problem is? ...or is this a policy decision by management.

Best regards,

Scott

[Sue Z]

Policy decision. They said it wouldn't be up and running until most of the applications have been processed. I'll try to find the link.

[Sue Z]

From my permit rejection letter:

"We will continue to process standard group (1-8 campers) advance reservation applications through September. You are welcome to submit another application for a trip in the current year if you wish. Please visit our website at Backcountry Advance Reservations. Scroll down to “Submitting an Application”. The Advance reservation availability link may be inactive due to an early season backlog of over 2,000 applications. The link will be reactivated as soon as that backlog is processed. Once the Advance reservation availability link is active, usually by the first week of May, click on the site you are interested in to see a calendar of availability. Applications must be submitted on the Pay.gov website by entering “Glacier National Park” in the search field."

[zozeppelin]

Rejected as well, with date range well into September. Reading to much into the email, are they not even looking at September availability? I’m going to call (leave message).

[paul]

Rejected as well, with date range well into September. Reading to much into the email, are they not even looking at September availability? I’m going to call (leave message).

The permit that I received was for September. I'm starting to think that the person who processes a permit application can have a big impact on whether you get it or not. If you have someone who spends a lot of time looking through different options, you will have a better chance at getting it filled.

[orin]

I just got a permit for the Belly River for a week in late June/early July. I gave them no date range at all but allowed reverse route and camp substitutions. They did do several camp substitutions which resulted in two days of under 3 miles each and a couple of long days. It will be fine as is but a couple of tweaks before the trip could make it better. No complaints. The early dates might have helped or maybe it was just luck.

[zozeppelin]

I left a message and a ranger returned my call - say what you want about the process, what great people.

• I was 2700 or so out of 4000, and they're processing about 100 a day
• There wasn't an error and that my route choice was unavailable (I struggle accepting this given the typically dead Sept date range and additional availability)
• Couldn't say when the website would be back up. Speculated a couple weeks but said couldn't really give a date. Didn't want the situation where people were applying for 'available' dates that wouldn't exist after initial permit processing was completed.
• Were supposed to transition to pay.gov for the website this year, but that fell through mid transition, so it's a mess.

[sbosecker]

...Didn't want the situation where people were applying for 'available' dates that wouldn't exist after initial permit processing was completed...

With all due respect to the person that called you back...

I think that's what we all do when we sign up for this lottery. I respectfully disagree with that concept driving a policy that results in no way to fix a mistake.

I've been doing this for around 20 years. It hasn't happened often but it has happened - a few times - that I have gotten a response that my requested itinerary wasn't available and, upon checking the Advance Availability Page, finding they had made a mistake and an itinerary was actually available.

A phone call to the Backcountry Office resulted in me getting a reservation in these instances.

It won't be possible to correct the understandable human error that invariably will occur when processing this many applications.

Scott

[zozeppelin]

Scott, no disagreement here. I also have received permit denials for available itineraries, called and fixed same day.

That said, I empathized with their situation (understaffed, under time pressure, late change in IT plans, likely a lot of grumpy callers), didn’t want to shoot the messenger, and really appreciated the call back.

I felt like I was getting boilerplate until she did mention my specific route …. and not having the website to check it I didn’t think it was appropriate to conduct the inquisition (especially if I was wrong, which is likely the case if she took the time to call me back and knew the itinerary).

[paul]

It shouldn't be up to the person in the back country office to have to manually search for all possible options on a 6 week time range. This will likely cause many applications to be rejected erroneously. What they need is application that can do that for them. It would save tons of time and if done right never fail to find an option if it exists.

[sbosecker]

...if done right...

Paul,

There's the tricky part. HA!

The form, as it is now, allows a lot of customization and options. Yes a program (sorry, I'm old school) could do the same but I don't think it would be trivial to duplicate what a properly caffeinated person in the Backcountry Office can do.

Best regards,

Scott

[sbosecker]

Just got my "Unable To Confirm Any Of Your Reservation Choices" email from Glacier.

Not a total surprise as I had picked some routes with bottlenecks but I also had a date spread from August 8th to September 22nd as well as campsite substitutions on the routes I had requested.

Requested itineraries were:

GAB-MOL-MOL-GAB
GUN-GUN-ELL-SPE
ELF-HEL-GAB-GAB
FLA-FIF-FIF-GRN

I really thought the Sept 22nd end date would allow something to be awarded ...even though I suspected we might not be able to actually do the trip due to weather.

Scott

[Sue Z]

Just got my "Unable To Confirm Any Of Your Reservation Choices" email from Glacier.

Not a total surprise as I had picked some routes with bottlenecks but I also had a date spread from August 8th to September 22nd as well as campsite substitutions on the routes I had requested.

Requested itineraries were:

GAB-MOL-MOL-GAB
GUN-GUN-ELL-SPE
ELF-HEL-GAB-GAB
FLA-FIF-FIF-GRN

I really thought the Sept 22nd end date would allow something to be awarded ...even though I suspected we might not be able to actually do the trip due to weather.

Scott

Yikes! That's ridiculous. They must have handed out a lot of consolation trips. Hope there are a plenty of cancelations.

I got my last choice, REF-REF. It'll be good for the novice we're bringing, but then again, maybe not good enough to entice her to come again.

[tibber]

Just got my "Unable To Confirm Any Of Your Reservation Choices" email from Glacier.

Not a total surprise as I had picked some routes with bottlenecks but I also had a date spread from August 8th to September 22nd as well as campsite substitutions on the routes I had requested.

Requested itineraries were:
GAB-MOL-MOL-GAB
GUN-GUN-ELL-SPE
ELF-HEL-GAB-GAB
FLA-FIF-FIF-GRN
I really thought the Sept 22nd end date would allow something to be awarded ...even though I suspected we might not be able to actually do the trip due to weather.

Scott

Yikes! That's ridiculous. They must have handed out a lot of consolation trips. Hope there are a plenty of cancelations.

I got my last choice, REF-REF. It'll be good for the novice we're bringing, but then again, maybe not good enough to entice her to come again.

that's too bad Scott; especially with all of the possibilities and your timeline; maybe that was too many choices or your permit request was just reviewed too late, which in that case is just a matter of luck.

Sue, When are you doing REF? It looks like a great camping spot based on the CDT videos I've seen of it.

[Sue Z]

Sue, When are you doing REF? It looks like a great camping spot based on the CDT videos I've seen of it.

I'll be there in early August. Planning to spend day 2 hiking in the Hudson Bay Creek Valley. Open to suggestions!