Chances of This Itinerary?

Are you a seasoned hiker, or just starting out? Let us know your questions or experience with the backcountry permit process.

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jruebsam
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Chances of This Itinerary?

Post by jruebsam »

We are a group of four and are wanting to do the following hike sometime in August. We are going to leave our window of time as flexible (2-3 week window) as possible in order to get our desired route, but I'm worried that we'll strike out altogether.

Day 1: Packers Roost TH to Fifty Mountain
Day 2: Fifty Mountain to Lake Janet (or another nearby campground)
Day 3: Lake Janet to Hole in the Wall
Day 4: Hole in the Wall to Uppper Kintla
Day 5: Upper Kintla to Kintla Lake Parking area

We will drop a car at the Lake Kintla Parking area and are working to pay a local to transport us to Apgar to take the shuttle to Packers Roost TH. We're figuring 4-5 hours for the pickup/dropoff. Is that reasonable?

I know that this is a very popular route, with HOL and UPK being extremely popular spots, and while we could also do a Kintla to Bowman loop or even an out-and-back, my "dream" trip is the one above. I will pre-load my application (though that option does not seem to be up an running) and will be hawkish on 03/15 to log in and get the trip entered. That said, should I go ahead an plan a second route?
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Thoughts on this Itinerary?

Post by jruebsam »

I posted this in the permit section, but thought it would be good to get some more general feedback on this planned itinerary.

We are a group of four and are wanting to do the following hike sometime in August. We are going to leave our window of time as flexible (2-3 week window) as possible in order to get our desired route, but I'm worried that we'll strike out altogether.

Day 1: Packers Roost TH to Fifty Mountain
Day 2: Fifty Mountain to Lake Janet (or another nearby campground)
Day 3: Lake Janet to Hole in the Wall
Day 4: Hole in the Wall to Uppper Kintla
Day 5: Upper Kintla to Kintla Lake Parking area

We will drop a car at the Lake Kintla Parking area and are working to pay a local to transport us to Apgar to take the shuttle to Packers Roost TH. We're figuring 4-5 hours for the pickup/dropoff from Agpar - Kintla - Agpar. Is that reasonable?

I know that this is a very popular route, with HOL and UPK being extremely popular spots, and while we could also do a Kintla to Bowman loop or even an out-and-back, my "dream" trip is the one above. I will pre-load my application on Pay.gov (though that option does not seem to be up an running) and will be hawkish on 03/15 to log in and get the trip entered. That said, should I go ahead an plan a second route?

For you GNP pros, is there anything else I'm forgetting or neglecting? Thank you in advance for the information!
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Re: Thoughts on this Itinerary?

Post by paul »

The toughest site to get will be Fifty Mountain. Getting HOL is tough but since it comes later in the trip you can always try to change your sites when you pick up the permit. Since it's the third night you'll have a good shot at HOL because it should have walkup sites available. If you can add a day to your permit you might want to get a night at Lake Francis or Boulder Pass.
Or you might want to substitute Janet for Francis and add a night at Kootnei (something like FIF, KOO, FRA, HOL, UPK would be nice).

Also make sure you say on the permit that it's okay to substitute campsites. This way you won't be rejected and will have the option of changing your itinerary when you pick it.
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Re: Chances of This Itinerary?

Post by smahurin »

A few thoughts:

A. Edit:... misread your transportation post. You can't have a private transport service operate in the north fork, but it sounds like you're trying to finagle a local into helping you out, which is fine, although likely difficult.

B. I think your chances are reasonably good of getting that itinerary. The most sought after location you're seeking is Fifty mountain. Hole in the wall and to a lesser extent upper kintla are both popular (and phenomenal for what its worth) but are "slightly" less sought after than some campsites simply due to the transportation logistics associated with hiking the north fork. With a 2-3week window I think there is a decent shot you grab that trip. Especially if you allow for minor changes in itinerary.

C. If you're willing to do that trip, why not start out at logan pass (or even the loop) add a day to your trip and try to snag granite park and hike the norther highline? Its another very tough spot to get though. I haven't been up through flattop, but I'd definitely opt for the nothern highline if I had the choice. In my opinion the lottery is for you to try and snag your very first choice permit/route. If you don't get your itinerary in the lotto, thats when you start sifting through fallback options.
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Re: Thoughts on this Itinerary?

Post by smahurin »

Might be good for a moderator to combine the two topics (see backcountry permits).
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Re: Thoughts on this Itinerary?

Post by jruebsam »

smahurin wrote:Might be good for a moderator to combine the two topics (see backcountry permits).
Sorry for the duplicate. I'm new here and wasn't sure where to put my inquiry.

I'll look into the alternate routes, though due to family commitments, the time is somewhat limited. Already convinced my wife to let me stretch my 4-day guys trip into 6! :D
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Re: Thoughts on this Itinerary?

Post by PeteE »

jruebsam wrote:
smahurin wrote:Might be good for a moderator to combine the two topics (see backcountry permits).
Sorry for the duplicate. I'm new here and wasn't sure where to put my inquiry.

I'll look into the alternate routes, though due to family commitments, the time is somewhat limited. Already convinced my wife to let me stretch my 4-day guys trip into 6! :D
I would do as you mentioned and give the BC Office the absolute widest possible window you can for your trip. If you have to, beg your family and the people where you work to allow you that flexibility. 8)
A big window combined with Paul's advice of allowing substitutions for sites maximizes your chances of getting a permit---assuming you get drawn in the new system.
As time goes on you can read past posts on here and chat with others on how to modify a permit if you get one. Getting a permit of any kind will is a HUGE start in getting what you ultimately want.
And then if all fails, there is the "walk up" permit process. You might be surprised at the really good trips you can get that way.
So good luck with it all.

pete :wink:
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Re: Chances of This Itinerary?

Post by sbruno »

Curious what you ended up with? I'm looking for someone to do a Kintla to Bowman car shuttle or key swap in mid August :)
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Re: Chances of This Itinerary?

Post by jruebsam »

No response yet...no denial email, but no other email either.

My hopes of getting a GNP itinerary this year are not high. :cry:
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Re: Chances of This Itinerary?

Post by Me and Cass »

jruebsam wrote:No response yet...no denial email, but no other email either.

My hopes of getting a GNP itinerary this year are not high. :cry:
I'm in the exact same spot...... ARGH!!! :(
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Re: Chances of This Itinerary?

Post by PeteE »

No news is good news for y'all in your cases. Hang in there.
Sent from the North Fork Rd onthe way to Glacierview Ridge for pics :)

pete :wink:
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Re: Chances of This Itinerary?

Post by jruebsam »

A friend who was also trying for another GNP trip just received his rejection (though, he is leading a group of 6-8 :shock: ).

FIngers permanently crossed. Otherwise, we're headed to the Wind River Range, so win-win.
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Re: Chances of This Itinerary?

Post by Me and Cass »

What's the wind river range? I am staring to think about contingencies, Teton NP, or Grand Canyon? Are there other backcountry spots around GNP, that I should look at? State parks, etc?
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Re: Chances of This Itinerary?

Post by jruebsam »

If you can't get GNP permits, you're definitely not getting Teton's better itineraries (their system is all online, and August is booked solid for most routes).

Grand Canyon is going to be wayyyyy to hot in August to do anything but river trips. None of the SW parks are good for summer backpacking due to extreme heat. Fall/Spring are peak times there.

Wind River Range is in Wyoming. There are hundreds of trails - no permits required, but logistics are challenging for many of the routes due to the remoteness of the area.
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Re: Chances of This Itinerary?

Post by smahurin »

Me and Cass wrote:What's the wind river range? I am staring to think about contingencies, Teton NP, or Grand Canyon? Are there other backcountry spots around GNP, that I should look at? State parks, etc?
You can still backpack in GNP without an advanced trip. They set aside half of the spots for walk-ins. You would have to be more flexible and not get your dream itinerary likely, but could still go.

As Jruebsam mentioned, GTNP operates on a similar system. Their advanced reservations opened in January and the peak season is likely already filled. But same story, they set aside portions of the backcountry permits for walk-ins as well.

Winds- no permit required.

If you have a passport you could try out banff or jasper. Jaspers site is fully online now. Looks like their popular routes (breazeau loop, tonquin valley, and skyline mostly have availability. Breazeau and tonquin have tons, while skyline has some slots left).
https://reservation.pc.gc.ca/Jasper/Bac ... &gccf=true

Just some random thoughts and other ideas if you want to do glacier another year. But you can still do glacier, even if you don't luck out in the lotto.
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