newbie questions on backcountry sites

Are you a seasoned hiker, or just starting out? Let us know your questions or experience with the backcountry permit process.

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McKee80
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newbie questions on backcountry sites

Post by McKee80 »

Hi,
I've been living vicariously on this site for about a year and I'm determined to make it up there this year. I had a couple things that I'm not sure of, or that I think I know, but am not sure. Any help would be appreciated:

1. The reservations are by campsite. So, does it matter if I have one or four people, as far as getting an itinerary? I'm not sure who is going to be going with me.
2. The pictures I've seen seem like the spots will generally accomodate 2 2 person tents. Would we have to double up if we had three or four people?
3. What do you do the night before your hike? Like in Yosemite, they have backpackers camp areas that you can stay in the night before and the night after your hike. If you're hiking out of Kintla or Bowman, do you have to just start your hike when you can get up there, or is there somewhere to stay?
4. I've seen people say to get any permit, then try to change it on walk-up. What is the advantage to that? You just have to wait in the walkup line whether you have an existing permit or not, right?
5. if I decide to get in line at some ungodly hour (4 AM or something) and am first in line, there is still no guarantee I get the sites I want, because people on longer trips that have already started may have grabbed those sites. Is that correct?
6. Is there much of an opportunity to see off trail waterfalls or lakes? I know you have to stay at established campsites, but can you wander on your way there? Or does the terrain dictate how you get there (assuming no mountaineering, etc)?
7. As far as the backcountry goes, is there a difference in the amount of people you run into between August and September? I would guess that assuming the campsites are all full, once you get out of day hiking range, it would be constant?
8. This is probably a dumb question to ask, but are there surrounding areas that are comparable to Glacier for backpacking that are less crowded, or less of a production? I don't mind the people or the paperwork, but sometimes there are places outside park boundaries that are almost equally beautiful.

Sorry for the length, number of questions, and lack of knowledge :). Any help on any of this would be super helpful

Thanks,
Sean
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paul
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Re: newbie questions on backcountry sites

Post by paul »

McKee80 wrote:Hi,
I've been living vicariously on this site for about a year and I'm determined to make it up there this year. I had a couple things that I'm not sure of, or that I think I know, but am not sure. Any help would be appreciated:

1. The reservations are by campsite. So, does it matter if I have one or four people, as far as getting an itinerary? I'm not sure who is going to be going with me.
2. The pictures I've seen seem like the spots will generally accomodate 2 2 person tents. Would we have to double up if we had three or four people?
3. What do you do the night before your hike? Like in Yosemite, they have backpackers camp areas that you can stay in the night before and the night after your hike. If you're hiking out of Kintla or Bowman, do you have to just start your hike when you can get up there, or is there somewhere to stay?
4. I've seen people say to get any permit, then try to change it on walk-up. What is the advantage to that? You just have to wait in the walkup line whether you have an existing permit or not, right?
5. if I decide to get in line at some ungodly hour (4 AM or something) and am first in line, there is still no guarantee I get the sites I want, because people on longer trips that have already started may have grabbed those sites. Is that correct?
6. Is there much of an opportunity to see off trail waterfalls or lakes? I know you have to stay at established campsites, but can you wander on your way there? Or does the terrain dictate how you get there (assuming no mountaineering, etc)?
7. As far as the backcountry goes, is there a difference in the amount of people you run into between August and September? I would guess that assuming the campsites are all full, once you get out of day hiking range, it would be constant?
8. This is probably a dumb question to ask, but are there surrounding areas that are comparable to Glacier for backpacking that are less crowded, or less of a production? I don't mind the people or the paperwork, but sometimes there are places outside park boundaries that are almost equally beautiful.

Sorry for the length, number of questions, and lack of knowledge :). Any help on any of this would be super helpful

Thanks,
Sean
Hey Sean,
1) You can put in a reservation for 4 people, if you only have 2 when you pick up the permit that's okay. You can also put in a reservation for 2 and then change it for 4 people when you pickup the permit.
2) The rules state max 4 people and 2 tents per campsite. Don't break the max people part, but if you can fit 3 tents into the camp tentsite you should be fine. That being said, some sites are small and might only have room for 1 or 2 tents.
3) The night before you can either camp at front country campground or get a room at a hotel.
4) It helps to have a permit reservation to start, because 1) they won't need to spend time taking down your information, 2) you already have an option to work with. 3) You have a better chance of getting a good permit with a reservation than going for a walk-up because a lot of camps will booked in advanced by the time you go get a walkup.
5) That's right, of course the longer your trip is the more likely that there will be open sites for you.
6) there are plenty of waterfalls and lakes along the trail. But you can also find things off trail without too much difficultly. It all depends on the area of the park.
7) Because they limit the number of permits , you won't find the trails very crowded in the back country. Especially, the farther you get from the road. Sometimes you may find that all sites are not in use either. Last season in August, I had 2 days that I didn't see anyone on the trail while I was hiking. I also was the only person camping at Lake Francis. It was really nice :D
8 ) I'm not an expert about the surrounding area, but I've heard that the Bob Marshall Wilderness (south of the park) has some remarkable scenery. I think there are other areas nearby that are quite nice too.

Paul
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Re: newbie questions on backcountry sites

Post by orin »

1. The reservations are by campsite. So, does it matter if I have one or four people, as far as getting an itinerary? I'm not sure who is going to be going with me.
Doesn't matter. More than 4 would require 2 sites.
2. The pictures I've seen seem like the spots will generally accomodate 2 2 person tents. Would we have to double up if we had three or four people?
2 tents is optimal. More can sometimes be squeezed in depending. Not sure if there is a maximum # of tents.
3. What do you do the night before your hike? Like in Yosemite, they have backpackers camp areas that you can stay in the night before and the night after your hike. If you're hiking out of Kintla or Bowman, do you have to just start your hike when you can get up there, or is there somewhere to stay?
Depends a lot on time of year, weather, etc. Kintla and Bowman both have campsites but you will compete with car campers to get them. If you can get to camp reasonably early the day before you would have a good chance at Bowman, a lesser chance at Kintla (it is small, only a dozen sites or so). The night you leave the trail will be harder because you will get there later in the day. Look at the campground fill times on nps.gov/glac and make your decision.
4. I've seen people say to get any permit, then try to change it on walk-up. What is the advantage to that? You just have to wait in the walkup line whether you have an existing permit or not, right?
Its a matter of increasing the probability you get the trip you want. Most people want a reservation as close to their dream trip as they can get. But if you ask for your dream trip with no date, campsite or direction flexibility there is a good chance you will end up with nothing. If you are flexible you are more likely to get a good trip but not necessarily your dream trip. So you can perhaps tweak it when you arrive. If you just show up the morning before your chances of getting anything close to what you want are much less. It just depends on what you want.
5. if I decide to get in line at some ungodly hour (4 AM or something) and am first in line, there is still no guarantee I get the sites I want, because people on longer trips that have already started may have grabbed those sites. Is that correct?
Correct, but each night the nps will post a list of sites available in the morning. So you need to get that list and plan your trip based on what is available. If you see something you want in a popular area then get up at 4. If you don't see what you want sleep in and do something else.
6. Is there much of an opportunity to see off trail waterfalls or lakes? I know you have to stay at established campsites, but can you wander on your way there? Or does the terrain dictate how you get there (assuming no mountaineering, etc)?
There are lots of options for off trail exploration if you have the skills. With some exceptions there is nothing stopping you from exploring where you want. But terrain certainly does dictate how easy or difficult these options are. You will see many threads here about various off trail adventures.
7. As far as the backcountry goes, is there a difference in the amount of people you run into between August and September? I would guess that assuming the campsites are all full, once you get out of day hiking range, it would be constant?
The number of people falls off quite rapidly in September. Between late August and immediately after Labor Day not so much difference. Then the numbers decrease fairly rapidly. Also depends a lot on weather and fires, etc.
8. This is probably a dumb question to ask, but are there surrounding areas that are comparable to Glacier for backpacking that are less crowded, or less of a production? I don't mind the people or the paperwork, but sometimes there are places outside park boundaries that are almost equally beautiful.
The Bob Marshall complex south of Glacier is larger than Glacier, has a small fraction of the hikers Glacier gets, requires no permits generally and is a very wild place. Probably not quite the scenic grandeur of Glacier but enough trips to last a lifetime.
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Re: newbie questions on backcountry sites

Post by daschmit »

The last third of September offers a number of advantages:

(1) Services within the park are limited, as is access to some roads, but visitation is low, so you may feel at times that you have the park all to yourselves.
(2) Fall foliage tends to be at its peak, particularly toward the end of September. If conditions are right, the aspen really put on a show in Two Medicine Valley, Many Glacier, Lower St. Mary Lake, Cut Bank Valley and the area around Chief Mountain.
(3) This is prime time for the elk rut. The sound of bull elk bugling is one of the signature sounds of wilderness and, once you have heard it, you will never forget it. The “bugle” is a high-pitched whistling sound that rises to a crescendo and culminates in a grunting or coughing sound. If you stay at St. Mary KOA Campground, you are almost guaranteed to be serenaded by bull elk in the evening.
(4) Weather definitely can be iffy. If you are supremely fortunate, however, you will be blessed with cool, crisp, clear days. You certainly may receive a dusting of snow in the higher elevations, but that only accentuates the contrast between brilliant blue skies, electric gold aspen, and dark green conifers.

In my opinion, there simply is no better time to visit Glacier than the last week to ten days of September.


Note: In addition to the “Bob,” another area worthy of your consideration, although much farther from Glacier, would be the Beartooth Mountains, which straddle the Wyoming-Montana border. The Beartooths are high, wild and rugged. Because of their altitude, they probably would pose even more of a threat of snow late in September than Glacier. The first time I traversed the Beartooth Highway, which tops out at just shy of 11,000 feet, was in mid-August 1978. They had a winter storm warning posted for the area in anticipation of 8-12 inches of snow. I made it safely across to Red Lodge before the snow began to truly accumulate.
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Re: newbie questions on backcountry sites

Post by daschmit »

Sean,

If you would appreciate more info on the Bob, here are links to a couple of threads on this site that pertain to that wilderness area: http://www.glacier.nationalparkschat.co ... f=6&t=6897 and http://www.glacier.nationalparkschat.co ... f=6&t=8735.

A few books and trail guides have been published about the Bob Marshall Wilderness Area. See, for example, Hiking Montana's Bob Marshall Wilderness (2001) by Erik Molvar ( and Montana's Bob Marshall Country: The Bob Marshall, Scapegoat, Great Bear Wilderness Areas and Surrounding Wildlands (1985) by Richard P. Graetz (
McKee80
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Re: newbie questions on backcountry sites

Post by McKee80 »

Thank you all so much for the help! It all makes sense to me now! I think I am going to see what happens with the Glacier permit process and go from there. Now to figure out what my "dream trip" is ...
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Re: newbie questions on backcountry sites

Post by Sue Z »

McKee80 wrote: 5. if I decide to get in line at some ungodly hour (4 AM or something) and am first in line, there is still no guarantee I get the sites I want, because people on longer trips that have already started may have grabbed those sites. Is that correct?
If you can get to a wifi spot the night before you plan to pick up your permit, you can check this campground availability page, which is updated daily. It will show you how many campsites are available for walk-ups at each backcountry campground for the next 6 days. It's very helpful with planning permit changes. If you're first in line in the morning, your only competition is someone first in line at one of the other permit stations. https://home.nps.gov/applications/glac/ ... status.cfm
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Re: newbie questions on backcountry sites

Post by McKee80 »

Thanks, I'll make sure to have that handy if I end up having to wait in line for a change

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Re: newbie questions on backcountry sites

Post by PeteE »

The walk up permit process works well.
Those who are willing to lose an hour or so more sleep than normal might just get the trip of a lifetime.
I've seen it happen 8)



pete :wink:
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Re: newbie questions on backcountry sites

Post by McKee80 »

Thank you all for the help. I'm full on creating my dream itinerary as we speak. I may (probably) have some route questions soon. Just want to give you all something to look forward to :)
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