2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Are you a seasoned hiker, or just starting out? Let us know your questions or experience with the backcountry permit process.

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thorn726
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by thorn726 »

Hooray, Finally heard back .. my timestamp was 10:02:01 got word around 130 pm pacific time today april 5. I was not booted out by the system crash so i guess quite a few of the "crashed" people were ahead of me.. I got my first pick very Happy. We are just going to Bowman Lake and staying there for 2 nights. We didn't want to try anything to difficult, and i like to REally See an area so we'll take in everything.. I think it helped that we are going a little early for that area, July 17/18 .. while Bowman opens 6/15, BOU isnt open until 8/1 so less people are trying for the sites along the route.. from reading here i see many of you are in for some long multi site hikes, very impressive! on my other picks I avoided choosing sites along thru trip routes to increase my chances, and to leave those sites open for the thru hikers. Good Luck everyone and thanks for all the info.. now that i can stop stressing about the permit i'll be looking for other info first one being... if we hike in day 1, hike out day 3, we have a full day to hang out at BOW...anything specific you would do? if we only want to hike say 5 miles rd trip that day from BOW, should we go up boulder pass trail or just go off trail straight up the mtn?
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by PeteE »

thorn726 wrote:Hooray, Finally heard back .. my timestamp was 10:02:01 got word around 130 pm pacific time today april 5. I was not booted out by the system crash so i guess quite a few of the "crashed" people were ahead of me.. I got my first pick very Happy. We are just going to Bowman Lake and staying there for 2 nights. We didn't want to try anything to difficult, and i like to REally See an area so we'll take in everything.. I think it helped that we are going a little early for that area, July 17/18 .. while Bowman opens 6/15, BOU isnt open until 8/1 so less people are trying for the sites along the route.. from reading here i see many of you are in for some long multi site hikes, very impressive! on my other picks I avoided choosing sites along thru trip routes to increase my chances, and to leave those sites open for the thru hikers. Good Luck everyone and thanks for all the info.. now that i can stop stressing about the permit i'll be looking for other info first one being... if we hike in day 1, hike out day 3, we have a full day to hang out at BOW...anything specific you would do? if we only want to hike say 5 miles rd trip that day from BOW, should we go up boulder pass trail or just go off trail straight up the mtn?
Hi and welcome to the GNP chat!
I think you'll have a good time. BOW is a nice campsite.
I spent two nights there the last week in May 2015 with the same plan---spend day 2 going up towards Brown Pass.
Bushwhacking in that area wouldn't be recommended. VERY gnarly once you step off trail in much of that area.

This has been a big snow year---so far. So I agree that it's doubtful there will be much "through traffic".
That said, BOW will likely be full each night, partly because with record crowds, virtually all the more easily reached campsites will fill.
The weekend I was out there, a couple(they're in the video) day hiked up to Chapman Peak carrying skis. Ski'd back down to someplace near Brown Pass I think they said.

People may still be doing stuff like that in mid July with all the snow we've had this year.
I'd use your middle day to hike up towards Brown Pass. Go as far as you want, then return.
People do fish in Bowman lake but I know zip point zero about fishing. 8)

Here's a "lame video" of mine from my May 2015 backpack out there.
There was a BIG wind event that spring and the trail hadn't been worked on yet.
You won't have to deal with down trees like you see in this video.

14 minutes


This clip was around the fire one of the two evenings.
Sitting around a campfire like this chatting with new folks---I love it.
2 minutes


pete :wink:

PS
After you get here, If the snow melts quicker than some of us anticipate, and BRO opens.
And if you have time and feel inclined to do so...
Remember you can modify your permit to something like:
Car CG start-->
BOW-->BRO-->BOW--> out back at the car CG.
Personally, I doubt BRO will open, but one never knows around here! :)


PPS

I have another video uploading of Day 2 when I walked toward Brown pass.
"If you are not curious, you will learn nothing" -Goethe-

"When you're born in this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show.
And when you're born in America, you're given a front row seat."

George Carlin
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by thorn726 »

thanks! we assume the campsites will be full, which is fine honestly we'll feel safer/// we usually try to be as far from other people as possible but this is our first time in grizzly country.. i just mentioned the early dates and snow over BOU etc for people who might already be thinking of future trips// if all you want is BOW, easier to score it early than to get it mid august when even more people are after those spots...
OK so up the creek towards Browns sounds good, i figured it might be rough going uphill.. have you (or anyone) made it up to Numa lake? rough as it may be im tempted to at least try it.. we'll probably get there early enough day 1 i can give a try at it, but we'' plan on heading towards Brown's Pass. We have 2 nights before and 1 after our BC trip at fish creek so we should get to see quite a bit. I noticed some of your posts about Polebridge, looks like picking up our permit up there day of our BC trip will make things super easy. We're used to super slow bumpy roads, i saw your videos of the road, about to watch the links you posted... so excited! /i'll be asking some more questions in other sections of the forum, thanks
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by sbosecker »

thorn726 wrote:thanks! we assume the campsites will be full, which is fine honestly we'll feel safer/// we usually try to be as far from other people as possible but this is our first time in grizzly country.. i just mentioned the early dates and snow over BOU etc for people who might already be thinking of future trips// if all you want is BOW, easier to score it early than to get it mid august when even more people are after those spots...
OK so up the creek towards Browns sounds good, i figured it might be rough going uphill.. have you (or anyone) made it up to Numa lake? rough as it may be im tempted to at least try it.. we'll probably get there early enough day 1 i can give a try at it, but we'' plan on heading towards Brown's Pass. We have 2 nights before and 1 after our BC trip at fish creek so we should get to see quite a bit. I noticed some of your posts about Polebridge, looks like picking up our permit up there day of our BC trip will make things super easy. We're used to super slow bumpy roads, i saw your videos of the road, about to watch the links you posted... so excited! /i'll be asking some more questions in other sections of the forum, thanks

thorn726,

I don't think that permits are issued (normally) at Polebridge - you may want to confirm that you can do that. Apgar would be the closest location to Polebridge to get permits. I think it would take about 2 hours to get to Polebridge from Apgar but it's been a while since I have done this.

I just watched the first part of Pete's video while he was on Bowman Lake Road... As Pete wisely mentioned - and isn't all that obvious in his footage of that section of the road - one has to pay close attention while driving to Bowman Lake.

I grew up driving on similar roads (skinny, rough, full of blind corners with no shoulder and brush/trees scraping the side of one's vehicle) when I grew up on a farm in southern Indiana many years ago. The problem you may have, even if you are used to such roads, is that most people are not accustomed to driving on roads like this. Although the posted speed limit is 20 mph (I believe) the average driver's solution to dealing with Bowman Lake Road is to try to get through it as fast as possible. If you meet someone like that going the opposite direction - particularly as Pete pointed out; driving a large pickup dragging a boat or trailer - it can be quite sporty. The idea of stopping at a wide spot (let alone slowing down) - or even backing up to a wide spot - to allow both vehicles to pass somewhat successfully is not something the average 21st century driver can comprehend.

I cannot stress too strongly that the section of Bowman Lake Road that Pete video'd is way more benign than most of it so be warned. If you don't meet anyone it's just an old, rough, gravel road. If, as you are driving on Bowman Lake Road, you do meet someone unaware of the proper driving etiquette for such a road, you will probably utter a few "backcountry oaths" during the encounter.

Good luck!

Best regards,

Scott
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by wnysteve »

sbosecker wrote: I don't think that permits are issued (normally) at Polebridge - you may want to confirm that you can do that. Apgar would be the closest location to Polebridge to get permits.

Scott
I have picked up a permit in the past at Polebridge entrance station. I think they open about an hour later than Apgar, but if you have a reservation, it would be no problem.
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by sbosecker »

wnysteve wrote: I have picked up a permit in the past at Polebridge entrance station. I think they open about an hour later than Apgar, but if you have a reservation, it would be no problem.
wnysteve,

I stand corrected. I just looked on Glacier NP's site and, as you indicated, it listed Polebridge as being able to issue permits. Another I was unaware of was Waterton - although apparently they aren't this year if I read the notice correctly (Their Visitor Center burned up in last year's fires).

https://www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/backcountry.htm

I was only aware of Apgar, Two Medicine, St Mary & Many Glacier as places one was able to get permits. I started backpacking in Glacier in 2003... Is it possible the Polebridge & Waterton sites were added since then and I just didn't realize this had happened? Or has the ability to get permits at Polebridge & Waterton always been so?

Best regards,

Scott
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by wnysteve »

I can't say when Polebridge started issuing permits, but it's not a recent thing. The backpack for which that permit came was in 2009. They have a telephone link to the Apgar office. I don't mean that the Polebridge computer is tied to the one in Apgar. No, they literally pick up the telephone and call down to Apgar, give them your name and itinerary, and Apgar confirms it back by phone. The ranger at Polebridge then takes a NPS Backcountry Permit blank and writes the information in by hand.

I thought it was all a neat thing; a departure from the technological world, and fitting for the remote North Fork.
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by thorn726 »

yeah i checked the website first/ polebridge issues permits starting at 9am, much better for me/i will triple check with rangers before we go to be safe// The waterton info is confusing because i saw people say it is closed due to fire yet the info they sent with my permit says it is still open.. probably a mistake..// anyway we're very happy we can likely pick up at polebridge, would be a real bummer to spend part of our " GTTS rd tourist day" picking up permits...as far as the polebridge road, we're desert rats so we are used to bumpy slow... we've done toroweap twice (look it up if you never heard of it, you'll like it) and we go out to death valley regularly..endless slow bumpy roads.. this road looks fine by us, but we'll still be taking it at 10-15 mph max, we're used to that sort of thing. You never know when a loose section, big pothole, or crazy other driver might pop up... plus the slower you go, the more you might see.. we spot a lot of wildlife on those slow crawls. Thanks for the info folks.. sounds like other drivers are the biggest worry on the road, good to know..
also still looking for info on Numa lake, i may do another post for that..
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by PeteE »

also still looking for info on Numa lake, i may do another post for that..
There's no trail, or trail information that I could find for Numa Lake.

It's not that far from BOW, but...
Unless you are an experienced mountaineer with very good bushwhacking skills, I don't think Numa Lake is doable.
Looks like it's around 3000 vertical feet above Bowman Lake.

And the last part is ClassIII minimum, and probably places it's ClassIV from looking at Google Earth.
Plus I've never heard anyone talking about climbing up to Numa Lake.

The mountaineering folks here may have some information for you.

pete :wink:
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by thorn726 »

thanks/ i was afraid it might get too steep i cant tell if it is 2000 or 3000.. 2000 is a maybe 3000 is definitely not//im not going to try anything more than a little scrambling, it's probably an impassable cliff near the lake itself... ill poke around the other sections and see if anyone has ever gone up numa creek at all. i might at least have time to try going a little ways. looks like it is time for me to shift to other forums.. your videos have been very helpful PeteE Thanks!
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by mfster »

Just got my permit today! I had a 10:09 time stamp but was kicked off a few times right at 10:00. Got my first choice except they swapped Cosley on the first night for Glenns Foot. And I have Elizabeth Lake falling on my 30th birthday!

Now I just have to hope my friend is still able to go, although I guess I could go alone if I have to. And just hope I don't get eaten by bears. :P

I wasn't able to reserve anything at a lodge or car campsite for the nights before or after.... I assume there's no way I could get a room at one of the lodges at this point, but is it difficult to get one of the first-come first-served car campsites at Many Glacier or Two Medicine?

Also the day I have between Elizabeth Lake head and foot....should I check out Helen Lake? Or Ptarmigan Tunnel?


ENTER - CHIEF MOUNTAIN (TRAILHEAD)

7-26-2018 - GLF - GLENNS FOOT
Fires; NO
Segment; Length 10.30
Elevation; Up 277 | Down 744

7-27-2018 - MOL - MOKOWANIS LK
Fires; NO
Segment; Length 4.10
Elevation; Up 118 | Down 0

7-28-2018 - ELF - ELIZ LK, FT
Fires; NO
Segment; Length 9.80
Elevation; Up 290 | Down 378

7-29-2018 - ELH - ELIZABETH HD
Fires; NO
Segment; Length 1.60
Elevation; Up 0 | Down 0

EXIT - CHIEF MOUNTAIN (TRAILHEAD)
Segment; Length 11.10
Elevation; Up 744 | Down 307


TOTALS;
Trip length 36.90 miles
Elevation up 1,429 feet
Elevation down 1,429 feet
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by daschmit »

Mfster, it will cost you considerably more than the NPS campgrounds at Many Glacier or Two Medicine, but, if you value the peace of mind of having a reservation in hand, another option would be the KOA campground at St. Mary. If so inclined, you could book that right now. See https://koa.com/campgrounds/st-mary/.

From last year’s chat room reports, you will face heavy competition trying to access available campsites during peak season at Many Glacier. If memory serves me correctly, there were reports of lengthy lines of cars waiting at the campground entrance during the early morning hours, all of whom hoped to secure a campsite as the previous night’s visitors departed.
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by mfster »

Thanks daschmit! I just might do that.

Does anyone have any experience with "Brownies" hostel? It WOULD be nice to stay somewhere with a shower if possible, at least at the end of the trip.
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by daschmit »

Mfster, if money is not a serious impediment, the St. Mary Lodge and Resort complex (see https://www.glacierparkcollection.com/l ... y-village/) is another option. It is my understanding, although it is admittedly dated, that they do not tend to book to capacity nearly as fast as the historic lodges, such as the one at Many Glacier. I haven’t been there in eight years, but it has always been my experience that food at the Snowgoose Grille, which is located in that complex, is excellent.
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Re: 2018 Backcountry Permit Buzz

Post by sbosecker »

mfster wrote:Thanks daschmit! I just might do that.

Does anyone have any experience with "Brownies" hostel? It WOULD be nice to stay somewhere with a shower if possible, at least at the end of the trip.
mfster,

About 10 years ago I did a 6-Day backpack in the Two Medicine area. The last night was at Cobalt Lake so we came out of the backcountry at Two Medicine pretty early. It would be 3:00 pm before we could check into our hotel in Kalispell so even with the long drive from Two Medicine we had time to kill but - after 6 days - we weren't going to be welcome in polite society without getting cleaned up.

We dropped by the Backcountry Office in Two Medicine and asked a ranger if there was anywhere we could get a shower. The ranger indicated that would be possible at Brownies.

We drove to Brownies and I walked into the Mini-Mart area of the facility. A lady was behind the counter and I told her what the ranger had said.

"Yes", she said, "A shower is one dollar."

"Great", I said and I turned to go outside to get my hiking partner.

"Do you have towels?", the lady asked before I had completed my pivot towards the door.

I turned back towards the counter. "No", I said.

"That'll be another dollar", she said.

Fearing the worst, I asked with a grin, "How much for hot water?"

She laughed and said that hot water was included with the Dollar Shower.

My buddy and I handed the lady $2 each. We climbed the stairs and went to the shower area at the back of the building. Now this is a pretty cozy facility and my buddy and I had just gotten our hiking clothes stripped off in preparation for our showers when an older gentleman opened the door to come into the bathroom. He seemed startled by our appearance initially but then he remembered where he was and moved past us to go where he needed to go.

We showered, shaved and got into regular clothes. When I came down the stairs I told the lady behind the counter that that was the best two dollars I had spent in a long time.

Scott
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