2024 Ticketed Entry

[zozeppelin]

Updates for next year: Flathead Beacon

Heading in the right direction by dropping the east entrance and Two Medicine. Also by pushing the entry point up GttSR, people can enter Apgar and catch shuttles - this is a breakthrough improvement.

Not blocking the east entrance seems to admit the issue isn’t the traffic, it’s the bottleneck at the entrance or that people are too lazy to drive around?

Some interesting stats as well on utilization of the 3 day pass.

[paul]

Yes, that's much better. I always thought the Two Medicine pass was completely unnecessary. Still they are leaving the North Fork access unchanged. I guess I can deal with that.

[Ear Mountain]

I've never had much luck getting an entry pass. Will the change to a one day pass make it easier to get an entry ticket?

[orin]

NPS claims that the change from 3 day pass validity to 1 day will let them issue more passes. Whether that will make a noticeable difference is hard to say but if demand continues to vastly exceed supply probably not much. East side access should be easier though unless overcrowding forces a lot of temporary closures.

[zozeppelin]

Also I see the 'day prior' pass time has changed from the morning to the evening, which is also good as those wanting passes likely are heading into the park early the day of (prior) to gain access without a ticket and won't have cell access.

[mattB]

I understand that they're still kind of experimenting and testing and trying to figure out what works best, but I can't see any of these changes helping much.
Having 3 different reservations for different areas of the park, and going from a 3 day pass to a 1 day pass, won't change things much, and will make it more complicated to plan a multi-day visit, but it will give a lot more "service fees" to rec dot gov...

Eliminating the reservation requirement for the GTTSR on the east side will make the parking situation at Logan Pass even worse than last year.

Moving the toll booth for the GTTSR on the west side from the West Glacier entrance to a spot just east of the Apgar Transit Center is a good idea, and will allow people who are willing to ride the shuttles to get into the park without a road reservation, BUT its probably going to make parking at Apgar terrible.

I know something has to be done, and I understand its a complicated problem, but I'm not sure they're going in a good direction.

I would like to see fewer cars and more shuttles.

[davidwayne]

I was fortunate that my 3 visits to GNP were all before 2014, before the extreme crowding. I still hope to return before old age creeps in, so hopefully the system can continue to be tweaked to allow easier access, especially for those of us who know to "GO EARLY" to the trailheads, etc.

[Selkie]

Park officials cited data from 2023 indicating that only 2% of three-day reservations were utilized all three days, and said that by shifting to a single-day system more reservations can be provided to visitors.

How do they know that?
If a car with 3-day reservation enters the park, does not leave (and so does not go through a checkpoint again) for 3 days, the pass is being fully used.
Are there checkers at Logan Pass and other major parking areas? In the campgrounds? (I have not used the 3-day reservation system.)

[orin]

My guess is that "utilized" just means counted at the entrance. They probably take occasional surveys where they ask people more detailed questions and then use that data to estimate things like "how many entered once but stayed 3 days". Then they put it into a statistical model which tries to make corrections for things they don't actually know.

[Ear Mountain]

...They probably take occasional surveys...

Somewhat off topic, but I remember once (maybe in the 1980s) that at an entrance station I was asked how long I planned on spending in Glacier. I replied 3 weeks. The reply I got to that was, "What do you DO in the park for that long?"

[teapot57]

The reply I got to that was, "What do you DO in the park for that long?"

That’s funny!

This past summer, I was using a Granite Park Chalet reservation as my entry ticket at the check point on the east side. The gal looked at my reservation then asked her coworker, “Is the Granite Park Chalet trailhead along the Sun Road?”

[al_in_al]

Park officials cited data from 2023 indicating that only 2% of three-day reservations were utilized all three days, and said that by shifting to a single-day system more reservations can be provided to visitors.

How do they know that?
If a car with 3-day reservation enters the park, does not leave (and so does not go through a checkpoint again) for 3 days, the pass is being fully used.
Are there checkers at Logan Pass and other major parking areas? In the campgrounds? (I have not used the 3-day reservation system.)

Actually, I'd argue in this example that the pass *isn't* being used.

Someone staying overnight inside the reservation area (lodging, campground, chalet) has already been accounted for. If they needed the pass to get to a FCFS site, backcountry office, etc. - they are using one day, but not the rest.

That being said, I also found the 2% number to be shockingly low.

[paul]

Park officials cited data from 2023 indicating that only 2% of three-day reservations were utilized all three days, and said that by shifting to a single-day system more reservations can be provided to visitors.

How do they know that?
If a car with 3-day reservation enters the park, does not leave (and so does not go through a checkpoint again) for 3 days, the pass is being fully used.
Are there checkers at Logan Pass and other major parking areas? In the campgrounds? (I have not used the 3-day reservation system.)

Actually, I'd argue in this example that the pass *isn't* being used.

Someone staying overnight inside the reservation area (lodging, campground, chalet) has already been accounted for. If they needed the pass to get to a FCFS site, backcountry office, etc. - they are using one day, but not the rest.

That being said, I also found the 2% number to be shockingly low.

Yes, there's no way that the park service can accurately count how many days the reservations were used since they have no way of know when people leave the park. To do that they would need a checkout mechanism.

[al_in_al]

Someone staying inside the park overnight (legally) doesn't need a vehicle pass. No passes are sold to people staying in the lodging, campsites, and chalets, but they are still let in because they are accounted for separately (this capacity, as well as activity capacity, is taken into account when setting the number of tickets each day). So, you only need to count the entries to know how many of the passes sold are actually being used each day. How many people leave in a day doesn't matter.

If someone happens to buy a pass they don't need (because their lodging gives them entry), it should be counted as "unused".

[paul]

I see your point, but there are other reasons why someone with a 3 day pass might not show up that they are there for 3 days. For instance if they come when there is no one at the gates. I've seen the gates not manned many times.